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	<title>Comments on: Information Design and Public Transit</title>
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	<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145</link>
	<description>Rob Goodspeed&#039;s blog</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Layman</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-389076</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Layman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-389076</guid>
		<description>Well, I don&#039;t think that there is the aversion you say to quite the degree, given that 500,000 people ride the bus daily, and the MontCo bus system is one of the most successful suburban bus systems in the U.S.

Anyway, note that the timetable you came up with is how they do it in NYC.  NYC buses have bus maps on &#039;em too.

Good post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I don&#8217;t think that there is the aversion you say to quite the degree, given that 500,000 people ride the bus daily, and the MontCo bus system is one of the most successful suburban bus systems in the U.S.</p>
<p>Anyway, note that the timetable you came up with is how they do it in NYC.  NYC buses have bus maps on &#8216;em too.</p>
<p>Good post.</p>
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		<title>By: John I</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-388661</link>
		<dc:creator>John I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-388661</guid>
		<description>When I lived in Bratislava in (then ) Czechoslovakia, every single bus stop had two plain sheets of paper stapled to the pole: one was a simple time table for that bus, the second was a simple diagram/map of the bus route, and where it intersected with other routes.  If you knew the City or had a map you&#039;d be fine.  I think too much emphasis is placed on giving comprehensive information for people to make detailed plans.  For spontaneous trips, all you need is the when and where to for this here bus.

Knowing no Slovak, I got around just fine.  It was also heavily subsidized so you could get a day pass for pennies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I lived in Bratislava in (then ) Czechoslovakia, every single bus stop had two plain sheets of paper stapled to the pole: one was a simple time table for that bus, the second was a simple diagram/map of the bus route, and where it intersected with other routes.  If you knew the City or had a map you&#8217;d be fine.  I think too much emphasis is placed on giving comprehensive information for people to make detailed plans.  For spontaneous trips, all you need is the when and where to for this here bus.</p>
<p>Knowing no Slovak, I got around just fine.  It was also heavily subsidized so you could get a day pass for pennies.</p>
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		<title>By: Brady Dorman</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-388033</link>
		<dc:creator>Brady Dorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 06:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-388033</guid>
		<description>Herbie - the Munich time tables seem pretty straight forward, understandable, while providing sufficient information.  If you aren&#039;t at an endpoint all you need to do is add the number of minutes listed at the top to the beginning departure time.

  I personally like a timetable so I can see and comprehend the whole route / system as I&#039;m used to ... but for others this may be too much information or too complex to decipher.  In that case I think the Munich time table is a great alternative.  It still provides all the same information, but just communicates it in a more concise means, emphasizing the most critical information (ie. when does the bus leave).  Quite interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Herbie &#8211; the Munich time tables seem pretty straight forward, understandable, while providing sufficient information.  If you aren&#8217;t at an endpoint all you need to do is add the number of minutes listed at the top to the beginning departure time.</p>
<p>  I personally like a timetable so I can see and comprehend the whole route / system as I&#8217;m used to &#8230; but for others this may be too much information or too complex to decipher.  In that case I think the Munich time table is a great alternative.  It still provides all the same information, but just communicates it in a more concise means, emphasizing the most critical information (ie. when does the bus leave).  Quite interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-387405</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-387405</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t the same information available in the standard listing simply by the length of the &quot;spreadsheet&quot; listing?  If it is really long, obviously the bus is a more frequent one, and I am not aware of any bus schedules that don&#039;t run more during rush hour and less outside of rush hour (besides special event buses), so that information is really redundant anyways.

That doesn&#039;t mean that the stem-and-leaf presentation isn&#039;t still better at conveying that information, but I&#039;d be interested to know why, and I don&#039;t think you&#039;ve covered that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the same information available in the standard listing simply by the length of the &#8220;spreadsheet&#8221; listing?  If it is really long, obviously the bus is a more frequent one, and I am not aware of any bus schedules that don&#8217;t run more during rush hour and less outside of rush hour (besides special event buses), so that information is really redundant anyways.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t mean that the stem-and-leaf presentation isn&#8217;t still better at conveying that information, but I&#8217;d be interested to know why, and I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ve covered that.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Yglesias &#187; Better Bus Info</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-387339</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Yglesias &#187; Better Bus Info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-387339</guid>
		<description>[...] on Rob Goodspeed&#8217;s blog is an old-but-good post on improving the visual presentation of bus schedule and route data. This isn&#8217;t the kind of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on Rob Goodspeed&#8217;s blog is an old-but-good post on improving the visual presentation of bus schedule and route data. This isn&#8217;t the kind of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Herbie</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-386653</link>
		<dc:creator>Herbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-386653</guid>
		<description>You may be interested in the design of the timetables for the Munich public transportation system.

U-bahn: http://www.mvg-mobil.de/aushangfahrplan/pdf/U6_H_MU_52.pdf
Bus: http://www.mvg-mobil.de/aushangfahrplan/pdf/54_H_MUE_74.PDF</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may be interested in the design of the timetables for the Munich public transportation system.</p>
<p>U-bahn: <a href="http://www.mvg-mobil.de/aushangfahrplan/pdf/U6_H_MU_52.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mvg-mobil.de/aushangfahrplan/pdf/U6_H_MU_52.pdf</a><br />
Bus: <a href="http://www.mvg-mobil.de/aushangfahrplan/pdf/54_H_MUE_74.PDF" rel="nofollow">http://www.mvg-mobil.de/aushangfahrplan/pdf/54_H_MUE_74.PDF</a></p>
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		<title>By: other side of the river</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-386548</link>
		<dc:creator>other side of the river</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-386548</guid>
		<description>Check out a recent thread on the Interaction Design site about public transportation site and schedule design:

http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=36199</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out a recent thread on the Interaction Design site about public transportation site and schedule design:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=36199" rel="nofollow">http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=36199</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lucre</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-386511</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-386511</guid>
		<description>I find your New Carrollton / Silver Spring schedule confusing, and would not know what to make of it if I saw it for the first time; I couldn&#039;t understand it at all until I saw how the UM schedule was laid out.  I would put the hours on the left, with vertical lines separating the minutes for NC bound and the bound buses.  

Furthermore, I agree with what David Esparza Jr said - when I worked near Tyson&#039;s Corner, I took the 3T from West Falls Church for the first few weeks; I didn&#039;t realize that it took more than twice as long to get to my destination as a number of other buses from the same station.  It would have taken me even longer to figure that out if arrival times had not been printed in the schedules for intervening stops.

Mr. Esparza&#039;s idea of printing travel times for common destinations would be helpful, but, unless I&#039;m mistaken, the current grid format indicates the different travel times that passengers can expect at different times of day on certain lines.

Finally, implementing this type of schedule system-wide would mean developing, printing, and posting stop-specific schedules for every single stop in the region (in order to remove any need to &quot;rely on experience or mental extrapolation to know when the bus might show up&quot;).  The cost would be much greater than creating a just one complete schedule for each line and posting it at each important stop, as is the current practice.

WMATA&#039;s bus schedules are far from perfect, but your approach seems to improve only the rider&#039;s ability to quickly judge bus frequency, and seems like a bit of a baby-with-the-bathwater approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find your New Carrollton / Silver Spring schedule confusing, and would not know what to make of it if I saw it for the first time; I couldn&#8217;t understand it at all until I saw how the UM schedule was laid out.  I would put the hours on the left, with vertical lines separating the minutes for NC bound and the bound buses.  </p>
<p>Furthermore, I agree with what David Esparza Jr said &#8211; when I worked near Tyson&#8217;s Corner, I took the 3T from West Falls Church for the first few weeks; I didn&#8217;t realize that it took more than twice as long to get to my destination as a number of other buses from the same station.  It would have taken me even longer to figure that out if arrival times had not been printed in the schedules for intervening stops.</p>
<p>Mr. Esparza&#8217;s idea of printing travel times for common destinations would be helpful, but, unless I&#8217;m mistaken, the current grid format indicates the different travel times that passengers can expect at different times of day on certain lines.</p>
<p>Finally, implementing this type of schedule system-wide would mean developing, printing, and posting stop-specific schedules for every single stop in the region (in order to remove any need to &#8220;rely on experience or mental extrapolation to know when the bus might show up&#8221;).  The cost would be much greater than creating a just one complete schedule for each line and posting it at each important stop, as is the current practice.</p>
<p>WMATA&#8217;s bus schedules are far from perfect, but your approach seems to improve only the rider&#8217;s ability to quickly judge bus frequency, and seems like a bit of a baby-with-the-bathwater approach.</p>
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		<title>By: David Esparza Jr</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-68941</link>
		<dc:creator>David Esparza Jr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-68941</guid>
		<description>To add to my comment above:

Knowing the time when you might arrive at a certain stop is important for changing lines-- a transfer from one line to another would be easier to figure out if you know what time you&#039;ll be at a transfer point.

It also helps in case you decide to get off before or after you intended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To add to my comment above:</p>
<p>Knowing the time when you might arrive at a certain stop is important for changing lines&#8211; a transfer from one line to another would be easier to figure out if you know what time you&#8217;ll be at a transfer point.</p>
<p>It also helps in case you decide to get off before or after you intended.</p>
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		<title>By: David Esparza Jr</title>
		<link>http://goodspeedupdate.com/2007/2145/comment-page-1#comment-68940</link>
		<dc:creator>David Esparza Jr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodspeedupdate.com/?p=2145#comment-68940</guid>
		<description>I see how simple and elegant the stem and leaf approach can be.

I just have a question about it: When planning a trip along a certain line, how is this approach better at letting someone know how long it will be between the stop they board a bus and the stop where they depart? 

I can see how easy it can be to use the stem and leaf, but the older variety of a linear spreadsheet (as shown in the flckr image) seems better at helping people see what time it will be when they get to a destination.

Of course, simply stating the scheduled time differences (showing that a successive stop is X minutes away, the following is Y minutes away, etc) is used where I live on maps at certain bus stops. It&#039;s east math, but I wonder if people would much rather look at the busy spreadsheets than do some arithmetic?

Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see how simple and elegant the stem and leaf approach can be.</p>
<p>I just have a question about it: When planning a trip along a certain line, how is this approach better at letting someone know how long it will be between the stop they board a bus and the stop where they depart? </p>
<p>I can see how easy it can be to use the stem and leaf, but the older variety of a linear spreadsheet (as shown in the flckr image) seems better at helping people see what time it will be when they get to a destination.</p>
<p>Of course, simply stating the scheduled time differences (showing that a successive stop is X minutes away, the following is Y minutes away, etc) is used where I live on maps at certain bus stops. It&#8217;s east math, but I wonder if people would much rather look at the busy spreadsheets than do some arithmetic?</p>
<p>Any thoughts?</p>
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